Posted by .... on September 02, 19100 at 16:34:03:
In Reply to: Catch 22 - Part Three posted by Elmer Barr on September 02, 19100 at 13:42:28:
Just like the CIA, Elmer wants people to think that no witnesses was the aircraft before the initial event, and thus did not see the initial event. If you forget that there were two missiles, and thus some saw a streak after the initial event, he can cause the few suckers who might fall for his hoax to think nobody could have seen a missile.
Well, FIRO's Tom Stalcup proved that MANY witnesses did report to the FBI that they saw the aircraft and then saw a streak headed toward and HIT the aircraft. Elmer's hoax is now a dead letter thanks to Mr. Stalcup, but try to tell that to a liar like Elmer.
The following summaries from 21 FBI eyewitness
statements "whose observations began earlier" are at
odds with the above CIA conclusions. For starters, a
majority (13) did see an aircraft.
Witness 73: "On 7/17/96, at approximately 8:37 P.M.,
she was on the Mobay (phonetic) section of Long Island
Beach, New York, when she observed an aircraft
climbing in the sky, traveling from her right to her left.
She advised that the sun was setting behind her. While
keeping her eyes on the aircraft, she observed a 'red
streak' moving up from the ground toward the aircraft
at an approximately a 45 degree angle. The 'red streak'
was leaving a light gray colored smoke trail. The 'red
streak went passed the right side and above the aircraft
before arcing back toward the aircraft's right wing.
Described the arc's shape as resembling an upside
down NIKE swoosh logo. The smoke trail, which was
light gray in color was narrow initially and widened as
it approached the aircraft.
She initially thought someone had set off a flare and
commented same to her friends...She never took her
eyes off the aircraft during this time. At the instant the
smoke trail ended at the aircraft's right wing, she heard
a loud sharp noise which sounded like a firecracker had
just exploded at her feet. She then observed a fire at the
aircraft followed by one or two secondary explosions
which had a deeper sound. She then observed the front
of the aircraft separate from the back. She then
observed burning pieces of debris falling from the
aircraft."
Witness 88: "All of a sudden he heard an explosion. He
glanced over to the southeast and observed what he
thought was a firework ascending into the sky. He
stated he originally felt this firework emanated from the
shoreline on the other side of the jetty to the east. He
stated that he continued to watch the firework ascend,
expecting to view the explosion in the sky. He stated
this object which was ascending left a wispy white
smoke trail. About midway through its flight, the smoke
trail stopped and the object turned a bright red in
color. He felt that this bright red flame was at the top of
the device. He stated that he now thought it was some
type of boating distress flare. All of a sudden, it
apparently reached the top of its flight. He stated that
the red fireball then arced from the east to the west. At
this point he observed an airplane come into the field of
view. He stated this airplane was very high up and
many miles from his location. He stated that the bright
red object ran into the airplane and upon doing so both
the plane and the object turned a real bright red then
exploded into a huge plume of flame. He noted that he
felt that either the bright red object pushed the nose
cone of the plane up or the plane was slightly angled
upward when the strike occurred. He stated he felt the
bright red object struck the plane towards the cockpit
area."
Witness 150: The shiny object "had no projections on it,
like wings, but [she asked herself] why would there be
such a huge bullet hurling through the sky?...She
followed the object for approximately 2 or 3 seconds
when she then noticed a large commercial airliner
which appeared to be traveling at the same altitude,
'just stop' and begin to disintegrate...As the plane
[identified by the witness as a 747] came apart, its nose
turned up and to the right."
Witness 166: "noticed a large commercial plane flying
east...[then] noticed something ascending 30-35 miles
away, which looked like white, yellow fire, trailed by
black smoke...It ascended in a straight line at an angle
of seven to ten degrees away from a vertical ninety
degree...[He] believed it was from the water...After
hearing news of the crash, he concluded that he had
seen a missile. He stated he was in the Polish army in
1974 and has experience with missiles...[He] opined
that this was a medium size missile which would have
required three experienced people to operate."
Witness 675: At a water hole in Speonk, NY "...noticed
an orange flare ascending from the south, traveling in a
WNW direction trailing white or light gray smoke. He
then observed the flare strike what looked like an
eastbound Cessna airplane on the port side. 675 saw a
small burst of flame erupt from the port side wing near
the fuselage. Approximately two (2) seconds later he
saw the plane go into a spiral and explode. With five (5)
seconds [of losing the falling debris behind the tree line]
he heard what sounded like thunder and felt the ground
shake."
Witness 34: "observed what he thought was a shooting
star travelling west to east coming from the south
shore...[it] moved faster than an airplane and had no
arch to it...he stated that it approached the aircraft
(what he originally thought was a Coast Guard flare)
from west to east...He was approximately 15 miles from
where he observed the crash site and no more then 5
miles from the missile (originally described as a
shooting star)."
Witness 107: He "described the flare as starting off in
the front of a larger obect and giving off an orange
glow initially...[and] advised that the initial flare
seemed to hit the object then shoot off to the west at an
eighty (80) degree angle giving off an orange and red
glow."
Witness 145: "stated that she saw a plane and noticed
an object spiraling towards the plane. The object which
she saw for about one second, had a glow at the end of
it and a gray/white smoke trail. She stated she saw the
object hit the plane and the object headed down toward
the ocean. She could not be sure where the object hit
the plane, but said it could have been to the side or
near the back. She heard a loud noise and saw an
explosion just as the object hit the plane. The plane
dropped towards the water and appeared to split in two
pieces. A few seconds later, she heard another
explosion. She stated that the explosions were so loud
that they shook the house." A drawing of the collision is
presented.
Witness 640: At Smith Point Park, "he leaned back to
stretch [and] his eye caught a jet plane in the sky, off to
his left, and moving eastward. At the same time, he saw,
off to his right, a 'green flash' rising up, and going
toward the plane. The "flash" was far out in the ocean,
was rising from the west, was also traveling east, and
was behind the plane."
Witness 144: "she first noticed a plane in the sky
traveling right to left...She then saw an object angle to
the right with a bright orange glow with a white streak
behind it...She then lost site of the streak because of the
clouds. She described this streak as 'taking off like a
rocket.' She thought at first that she saw fireworks but
then changed her mind and said 'no way it was a
missile.' After the clouds parted she saw a bright
orange fireball, more than doubled in size, which broke
shortly after into two pieces."
Witness 550b: "[H]e saw a plane coming from west to
east and then what looked like a 'smaller' plane coming
from the northeast on a dead course heading toward the
nose of the larger plane...and saw what looked like
aerial bomb fireworks. The larger plane blew up and
became a big fireball...he heard a sound like paper
crackling when the 'two planes' crunched up."
Witness 649: At Westhampton Beach High School, 649
observed a "projectile ascend in the sky." It was "red or
pink with a trail of whitish smoke. The projectile moved
in a squiggly manner in a southwest direction. The
projectile was airborne for six-seven seconds and then
it met with a shiny object that produced white smoke.
The white smoke disappeared and then a red ball began
to form. The red ball fell in an easterly direction at a
[?]much quicker[?] pace than the projectile was
ascending." [? this is contradicted by a later FBI
summary that says the second object fell at the same or
half the speed of the first, ascending object.]
Witness 658: While piloting an Air National Guard
Helicopter, "Baur first noticed what he thought was a
flare and said into the helicopter's radio, "Is that a
pyro?" Baur's first thought was that two things had
flown into each other." He also saw the falling debris
and immediately flew to the area in a search and rescue
effort. From NTSB interview, Appendix N: A
"white-hot..pyrotechnic... device...[which] came from
the left and went to the right. And it made the object on
the right explode."
Witness 221: "At approximately 8:30 pm, he heard the
sound of jet plane engines and he looked up so see a
large commercial jet which had apparently just taken
off from John F. Kennedy International Airport. The
aircraft was increasing in altitude as it flew out over
the ocean in an easterly or southeasterly
direction...Within seconds after the aircraft past him,
his wife called his attention to two fishing draggers
which were directly south or southwest of their
location. ...looking at the draggers, but further east or
in the same direction of where the aircraft flew, he saw
a streak of light travel up from the water into the
sky...[like] a rocket or like a shooting star only going
upward..." then heard rumbling sound and saw flash of
light.
Witness 157: "he noticed a red flare or firework trailing
white smoke ascending over the tree line on the south
side of the waterhole. The flare was angling
east-southeast. Approximately seven (7) to ten (10)
seconds later, he observed a large fireball erupt
approximately 12 miles away. An object, not on fire fell
away from the fireball. Before the explosion in the sky,
he observed a plane in the area of the flare. After the
explosion, he could no longer see the plane."
Witness 218: "observed what appeared to him as two
objects flying up, coming together and exploding....then
a blue and dark purple flash. Then another part
dropped off. The rest of the plane seemed to coast a
little further."
Witness 233: "she noticed a flare off in the distance,
rising into the air [later describing the flare as rising "at
a steady, remarkable pace"]...and straight up..[then after
looking away at nearby boats that she thought may have
launched the flare], she reacquired the flare still
glowing and still steadily rising...pause..then brightly
pulse in a small concentrated area...within two (2)
seconds of the pulse she observed a large object
seemingly stopping its forward momentum while
igniting into a fireball."
Witness 261: "saw a red navigator light from an
airplane in the distance. He then saw an orange
firework, with a tail, in the air southwest of him. The
firework traveled up, then arched down before he lost
sight of it. Seconds later he saw a second and third
firework in the sky simultaneously..[and they]..traveled
in the same arching pattern of the first firework.
Approximately 30 seconds later, he heard a rumble and
saw a blue vertical line of smoke stretch down to the
horizon."
Witness 243: "This flying object looked like it came up
from land [later described as "ascending into the sky
from an east to west direction"] in the Moriches area..
[It] was relatively slow in flying up and took about four
or five seconds before hitting the plane. The smoke
which trailed this object was whitish in color and the
band of smoke was narrow. It looked like a Roman
candle flying into the air...and neither it, nor its impact
with the plane, made any noise."
Witness 508: saw "an orange thing streak toward a
dark object for about 10 seconds [approaching] ...from
behind and on a downward angle and continued until
an explosion occurred...[And from another FBI summary,
he described the trajectory of the orange object:] saw an
orange object ascending in the sky...travelling
horizontally from right to left." [This other summary
does not mention the "dark object."]
Witness 185: "To the right of the star, a
'yellowy-orange" light, 'all glowing', was coming up, it
arced, from the right of the star going left. It went in
front of the star and then exploded like a big bright
light...She saw the rising light originate, she
thought...from the water...then one piece falling"
The above twenty-one eyewitnesses all describe two
distinct objects in the sky. Thirteen identify the larger
object as an aircraft, with a smaller object hurling
towards it. Time after time, the smaller object is
described as causing the aircraft to explode. Cloud cover
on the night of the crash caused some eyewitnesses to
lose sight of the "flare" before it exploded, and Flight 800
was likely behind these same clouds, out of view to many
eyewitnesses. Thus, most of the 183 eyewitnesses who
reported seeing an ascending "flare-like" object did not
see an aircraft. But sixty of these reported either a
western or eastern component for the ascending object,
and a majority (33) gave a western component. The CIA
says the "flare-like" object was Flight 800, heading east
to Paris.